Two of my fave boyss
I didn't always used to hate Stiles - Me myself and I
It's all about me
liliaeth
liliaeth
I didn't always used to hate Stiles
There used to be a time when I didn’t hate Stiles. Sure he annoyed and bored me in equal measures, but I could watch the show without wanting him gone.
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He reminded me way too much of the bullies that screwed up my childhood and basically made it so that I’m still scared of saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing in fear of people hating me for it.

It’s one of the reasons I don’t go for asshole characters like Stiles, like British Sherlock, like Loki, I’ve seen too many people like them and they’re not worth knowing.

And yet when watching Teen Wolf season one, I could ignore the guy and focus on Scott and be happy. Only then I made the mistake of coming into fandom and over a period of little over a year, the very people who call themselves Stiles fans have taken care of it that I now hate his guts.

That just seeing his name as the main char in a fic ensures I will not read it. That seeing him as part of a pairing will make me lose pretty much most of my interest in the pairing. And a lot of it has to do with the way his fans behave. With the lack of respect they show to people who think different from themselves.

I used to be indifferent to the guy, and now I hate his guts and get reminded more and more of those very bullies that used sarcasm and socalled wits to ruin the life of anyone that wasn’t a part of their little group. That intentionally excluded anyone that wasn’t like them.

Sarcastic assholes might seem funny on television, but in real life, they’re hell.

But I used to be able to ignore that, to just push him aside and focus on the characters that mattered, because the show was awesome and Scott was just so lovable and had all the traits I adore in a character.

And sure it annoyed the hell out of me that when I went into fandom, that all I could find was Stiles fics, even if most of them gave Stiles huge parts of Scott's personality while writing Scott ooc or completely ignoring him. Or that if I looked for crossovers, pretty much most of them had nothing to do with the actual show and were instead generic fics with sweet kid/brooding darker man fics, the likes of which you could find in pretty much any fandom.

But it did stand noticeable that aside of the fact how most of them ignored Stiles misogyny and acted as if his asshole attitude was just him being 'funny', that the majority of them still felt nothing like the actual show.

Hell, I remember when people started shipping Scott/Isaac and I was hopeful that we finally get some focus on Scott, ... only as usual, people started focusing on the white half of the pairing, and even then most fics with scisaac are Sterek fics with Scisaac as a side pairing, with primary focus on what a poor woobie that Isaac is, completely ignoring Scott's issues or feelings or...

It's something you notice in a lot of fandoms really.

Take Criminal Minds. Derek is a canonical victim of sexual abuse, treated horribly about this as a child and overcoming it to be the hero he is in present day. If he were white, there is no doubt that he'd be the woobie of the series. And instead most fics focus on what a poor woobie that Reir or Hotchner are.

Angel, we've got Gunn, a kid who grew up on the street, taking care of his little sister. He's the regular human of the group, if he were white, everyone would consider him the relateable one.

And instead he's barely used in fics and when he is, it's just as the buddy to Wesley, his relationship with Fred for the most part ignored. And half the time his issues and pain is just ... pushed aside, because poor ignored Wesley is 'so much more interesting.

In s1 Pete on Smallville had the exact same role as Stiles did on Teen Wolf. Funny sidekick. The actor playing him, Sam Jones is just as good if not better than Dylan O'Brien (keep in mind that my opinion of O'Brien's acting is not that high). Yet within a season, his character was not only pushed aside, but even though Pete was the canon char from the comics, he was quickly ignored as best friend to Clark and easily replaced by white girl-reporter Chloe Sullivan. A character who just like Stiles quickly took over the show's fandom.

Take Psych, I'm not the show's biggest fan, but what eps I've seen, you'd think that Shawn and Gus would be the pairing to ship. Best friends, as close as brothers, they have everything that people who ship the likes of wincest or that brother pairing on Numb3rs would go for. Yet... they aren't. Instead people focus on Lassiter instead.

Take Grimm, where you could easily ship Nick with Hank, yet instead, Nick/Monroe and Nick/Renard

Take Sleepy Hollow. Though I'm glad we get a focus on Abby who's my fave char on the show, fandom only seems to do so, because there's no white male for them to ship Ichabod with. Seriously, if Captain Irving were white, everyone would be shipping Ichabod/Irving... (and if anyone has the guts to say we didn't know enough about Irving to ship him with anyone, I've got plenty of Renard/Nick fics to show you how meaningless that seems to be when the character is white and thus considered 'pretty')

After a while you just start to see a pattern and that too plays in how much I've come to despise Stiles, and the likes of him.

Because people don't like to admit that they're following a pattern, but they are and it's a rather racist pattern. By now, I have no doubt that if Scott were played by a white actor, instead of by a Latino one, and Stiles were played by a black or otherwise poc actor, no one would give a single bit of a damn about Stiles. Other than as the wacky friend. Because it sure as hell is not the character type, or the acting that seems to make a difference. No matter how much Stiles fans might like to claim that Dylan is so much better an actor than Tyler Posey, a claim that is mockworthy since Dylan is just playing himself and the difference between Tyler and Scott is pretty large once you start actually following Tyler Posey.

But then fandom as a whole doesn't like to look at their own behavior and when you call them on it, they will deny it, will talk about what a poor woobie Stiles is, as as if.

Admittedly, another part of it is that fandom as a whole loves it's assholes. House, Loki, British Sherlock...

Hell even in spn, the more Sam starts acting like an asshole, the more fans he seems to get out of it. It's like being an asshole seems to get more people to relate to him, even as they completely ignore said asshole attitude in their fics where said assholes suddenly become the poor victims of circumstance and it's really the decent people around them who are the blame for said asshole's bad behavior. (and I'm really sick and tired of the woobiefication of Loki, cause Loki is many things, but a woobie is not one of them)

And it's an asshole attitude that is directly related to their whiteness, because when a poc character dares to do anything wrong, even if it's not half as bad as anything the white asshole does, you can bet that sure as hell, said fans will jump on it like a bone and will hold it over said poc character for all time to come.

It's an attitude that unfortunately traces through to real life as well. Where a white kid who does something wrong is seen as a victim of circumstance, while a black or poc kid is judged over and over for the most minor flaw. Because people 'relate' to said white kids and can come up with excuses for their behavior. But people can't seem to do the same if said kid isn't white.

And if we don't start looking at people's reaction to TV and media characters and judging this difference in response, then how can we expect them to look at their real life reactions as well?

So yes, I hate Stiles, I hate Stiles, because his fans refuse to see any of his flaws, because his fans keep making excuses for him, for anything he does, no matter what crap he pulls, does or says. And I hate him even more, because said same fans will crucify Scott for any choice he makes even if those choices are to save lives or do the right thing, or just the crime to care about something other than the feelings of their white boy fanfave.

I've come to despise Stiles, not just because he's an asshole, I can ignore assholes in other fandoms, but because his fans refuse to acknowledge he's an asshole and project his bad traits on Scott, while stealing Scott's good traits and handing them to Stiles.

And most of all, I've come to despise Stiles, because the moment you admit that he's not even in your top ten of fave Teen Wolf characters, that it makes you an outsider in Teen Wolf fandom and people just don't seem to get that some of us have actually met real life Stileses. And they're not nice people to know.

And I really hate being reminded of the kind of kids, that would run off on a school trip and leave you alone in the middle of a big city, because to them, if you're not part of their clique, you're nothing.... Because that's what Stiles is to me, and I can't help but hating his guts for it.

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Comments
transemacabre From: transemacabre Date: February 16th, 2014 08:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
Fandom has a big, big racist problem with shipping, and has for a long time. Whitecock: the promotion of a pairing featuring two white dudes. No matter if there's non-white characters with ten times the depth, character, screen time, and attractiveness on the show, the fandom will single out two white guys to slash together. H5O is another example. RENT is a particularly glaring example, as the entire cast except for Mark or Roger is either POC, gay, or trans/genderqueer, and yet who gets all the slash fic? The two straight white guys.

What gets me is how much slashers will dodge the issue. They'll put pictures on their Tumblr all about "awesome black people being awesome!!!" and squeeing over the ladies and rants about the lack of representation, but then you check their fic and... it's all whitecock. If confronted, they'll whine that there's no interesting/well-developed POC characters for them to slash, so they're stuck slashing the two white dudes. Because Clint/Coulson has SO much more textual support than, say, Tony/Rhodey, right? Or Gus is SO much less developed than Lassiter. Fuck y'all, just be fucking honest about it if you're into Whitecock and nothing else does it for you. Stop blaming it on the source material while furtively slashing White Male Supporting Character with White Male Background Character With Two Lines while acting like you were forced into it.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: February 16th, 2014 08:40 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh definitely. Hell take a movie like Pacific Rim, they could focus fics on Mako or Stacker Pentecost, two of the strongest most developed characters in the movie and yet most of the fics and fanart I've seen either focuses on the Becket brothers or those two nerd scientists.
(don't mind Raleigh fic as much, since at least he tends to come along with Mako, but I really don't get the interest in the two geeks)

It's one of the things that pleasantly surprised me about Almost Human that fandom as a whole almost immediately started shipping Dorian/John. And it's one of the many reasons that I really don't want to see that show canceled.

I think that a big part of the problem though is that the fans don't even realize what they're doing. I know that for a while I had no rational reason not to write Gunn fic, especially since he was my fave character on Angel. But I think a lot of people get focused on what fandom focuses on, rather than on the actual chemistry on the show.

I mean, I love and adore Scott, but I have a hard time to start writing for him, because I have no fic to get me in the right headspace to start writing. Since almost all Teen Wolf fic is Stiles focused.
Same with Angel, I love and adored Gunn, but it was hard to get in the right headspace to write him, since almost no one else was doing so, other than as a background character.

Fandom is a bit like lemmings, once people get a pairing going, others seem to follow them, even when there are better characters out there in the same series who are completely ignored.

I've noticed that with Benny/Dean on spn which is in many ways a more interesting pairing, and has more chemistry, but it just can't seem to get going, where Destiel took off and seems to drag people along. Even people who don't actually like the pairing as it stands on the show. (just look at the amount of human au that features a Dean and Castiel who have nothing in common with their canon counterparts)

Same with RPS, there are no personalities to base anything on, yet people go with the established pairings that others have written before them, and the traits that come along with those.

It's why shows like Almost Human and WTNV do get a non white pairing going, because the first pioneers in fandom went with it, and the rest follow. (even if far too many people in WTNV fandom still assume that Cecil is white, even if there is no reason in canon to make this assumption)

And the problem with that lemming like attitude is that most people never seem to question it, and that the people who ship a pairing based on nothing more than how two characters look, and who thus direct the fandom, usually just seem to go for the one hot white guy/second hot white guy formula where shipping is concerned.

this focus on white cock as you put it, is also obvious when you look at which fandoms get popular, especially on places like Tumblr.

I don't know if you're familiar with 'in the flesh', but really if representation was something these slashers actually went for, then you'd think that a show where the main character is queer would actually be right up their alley. The two main chars are even white.

But somehow, when the characters in the show are actually canonically LGBT, people seem to lose all interest in pairing them, unless they're talking about Queer as Folk, which has its own issues.




Edited at 2014-02-16 08:44 pm (UTC)
transemacabre From: transemacabre Date: February 16th, 2014 09:11 pm (UTC) (Link)
It's why shows like Almost Human and WTNV do get a non white pairing going, because the first pioneers in fandom went with it, and the rest follow. (even if far too many people in WTNV fandom still assume that Cecil is white, even if there is no reason in canon to make this assumption)

I'm not very familiar with Welcome to Night Vale, but as far as I know Word of God hasn't said what Cecil's race is. He could easily be black, white, Asian, what have you. And someone named Carlos in the US Southwest has at least a like 98% chance of being Latino and/or Amerindian. (Slash pairings with two POC are vanishingly rare.)
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: February 16th, 2014 09:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
Well Carlos is canonically a poc. (not much into the fandom myself, but a lot of the people on my tumblr dashboard are)

Nothing's been said about Cecil, which indeed means he could technically be any race. (which of course to a lot of people means he just has to he white*grumble*)
transemacabre From: transemacabre Date: February 16th, 2014 09:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
As a whitey myself (okay, white and Mestee, but only a handful of people know what that means, and for practical purposes I LOOK white) I take offense to the idea that white is the default. Like we're the blandest, safest choice -- the mayonnaise of races.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: February 16th, 2014 09:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
same here. I mean, I'm white as well, which is why I find it insulting when people in Hollywood and in charge of television or publishing seems to assume that white people can't identify with poc leads.

And then I get into fandom and get even more pissed off when a lot of people in said fandom prove them right.
melitta4ever From: melitta4ever Date: February 16th, 2014 10:26 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't really understand why you're upset with the fact that majority of the fans likes Stiles. The actors are intentionally chosen so that as many viewers as possible would like them. They are chosen for their acting abilities to some extend, yes, but we all know their physical attractiveness is playing a major role in it too. That's why we almost always have 'pretty' boys and girls in the movies and shows.

The same attractiveness is what -most of the time- makes a fan to write fiction about the characters. That's why we have much more John/boys stories than Bobby/boys in supernatural. I give this example because even though the fandom doesn't agree on how bad of a character John was -some think he did his best while others think he was an abusing piece of shit- I believe everyone believes Bobby was better than him. Still, if we look at the number of shipping written including these two characters, we see that John had overwhelming majority.

I totally agree with you that the white actors gets most -if not all- the fun in fanfiction. And that's mainly because majority of the writers are writing about what they're finding attractive/sexy. I don't mean all the fanfiction is some sort of masturbation, but let's be honest, the most are. We're not writing on pretty boys getting at each other because we work for world-peace. We do it because we find it is hot. And as long as the majority of the fans finds one type hotter than the others, we'll see the same type more on the screen as well as on the fiction.

I'm not saying there is not a racial profile, there is. And clearly it shows the beauty standards of the majority. I'm from another country and the trend is very similar. The majority's standard (which is slightly different than of US) is what we see in TV/movies all the time.

So, I could go on about why more people write/ship Stiles; but at the end, the answer is that more people finds the actor who plays Stiles more attractive than the others. The character strength or acting ability plays some role, sure; but it all boils down to see if we're attracted to the actor. And I that is okay. This is fandom where we chose a character that would play in our -not so moral- fantasies, we're allowed to be shallow.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: February 16th, 2014 10:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
I guess it doesn't help that I don't find Stiles the least bit attractive. I mean, he's not ugly, but he's kinda generic looking. That along with his utterly unattractive personality leads to my utter lack of interest in him to begin with.

It also doesn't help that most stiles fic is basically a more annoying version of Scott that looks like Dylan O'Brien.

And sure, shallowness has somewhat to do with it, but really Tyler Posey is by far more attractive than Dylan O'Brien could ever hope to be on his best day.

the problem is that even most Stiles fans, don't seem to like the actual character of Stiles as he's shown on the show. And yet they still push the far more interesting and far more attractive character of Scott aside for a bland self insert that they call Stiles.
transemacabre From: transemacabre Date: February 17th, 2014 02:17 am (UTC) (Link)
And sure, shallowness has somewhat to do with it, but really Tyler Posey is by far more attractive than Dylan O'Brien could ever hope to be on his best day.

I wanna know on what PLANET Dylan O'Brien is considered to be anywhere near Tyler Posey's league. I'm sure O'Brien is a nice person off-screen, and he's not ugly or anything, but Tyler Posey's parents deserve an award for fucking and producing him.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: February 16th, 2014 10:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'll admit though that for me personally, personality always beats looks.
I don't find Micheal C Hall, David Boreanaz, or Jared Padalecki even remotely attractive. But that still won't stop me from reading or writing fics about their characters, because Dexter, Angel and Sam do interest me.

JDM himself is not a type I find attractive, but John on the other hand kinda fascinates me.

As such on Teen Wolf, I find Scott fascinating and identify with him, while Jackson and Stiles pretty much repulse me by their very personalities and character traits. Yet oddly enough, despite being the least likeable characters on the show, they're also the two most likely to be turned into woobies by the fans.

Edited at 2014-02-16 10:47 pm (UTC)
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