Two of my fave boyss
In regards to Mark Watches - Me myself and I
It's all about me
liliaeth
liliaeth
In regards to Mark Watches
A lot of people have weighed in on the issue, but there's one thing that annoys the hell out of me with his reviews.

On one hand he keeps mentioning Spike's inappropriate invading of Buffy's personal space and so on,which k, is understandable.

But what bothers me, is that in his entire review of Gone, even after talking about what Spike did wrong when he first showed up at Buffy's, he doesn't even mention, Buffy's attempted rape of Spike. Or you know, the way she invades his space. Not just here, but in Tabula Rasa, Smashed and Wrecked as well.

But of course, she's the girl, so she must be the victim. Can't dare and look beyond that.

And oh yes, we're at Gone, and he STILL hasn't called what Willow did to Tara by it's true name, aka rape.

but of course, Willow's his favorite, so quell surprise...
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Comments
elisi From: elisi Date: July 24th, 2012 02:05 am (UTC) (Link)
I've stopped reading, but I am SO not surprised. PLEASE tell me that people are [faux] freaking out in comments re. Buffy 'disgusting behaviour'? Just to use a phrase he'd understand. (Although I guess most of those who'd bother have left now...)

To quote my friend owlsie:

There's this weird kind of sexism I've noticed in fandom where people kind of fetishize the suffering of women, you know what I mean? They call themselves feminists and such, but they actually go out of their way to strip characters of any agency they display, deny all their strong traits, and paint them as victims. It's gross.

liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: July 24th, 2012 02:13 am (UTC) (Link)
Well there's the people who agreed with my comment about Buffy's attempted rape of Spike. But notably Mark has not responded to said comment.

And most of the regular posters seem to be ignoring said thread.

Edited at 2012-07-24 06:13 am (UTC)
elisi From: elisi Date: July 24th, 2012 02:18 am (UTC) (Link)
No one picked up on my comparison of Spike/Buffy in 'Smashed' to Angel/Darla in 'Reprise' (which is a rather neat parallel)... They just ignore anything that doesn't fit with their reading. Which is a weird reading, since Buffy FOUR TIMES will admit to using Spike. Twice to his face. *shakes head*

Edited at 2012-07-24 06:23 am (UTC)
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: July 24th, 2012 02:24 am (UTC) (Link)
They also don't seem to think that a guy has a right to ask the girl what the hell she wants from him, after she plays with his head. But of course, these are the same people who were calling for Parker's head after he took advantage of Buffy, but do not see that Buffy is doing the exact same thing to Spike (only worse).

I'm already worried for when Mark starts reviewing SPN, because I can tell you right now, that Mark will NOT be able to get Dean, or look beyond the surface in regards to his character.
elisi From: elisi Date: July 24th, 2012 02:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
They also don't seem to think that a guy has a right to ask the girl what the hell she wants from him, after she plays with his head.
Well he's evil, he has no rights. (I wonder what Mark will say to the soul...)

I'm already worried for when Mark starts reviewing SPN, because I can tell you right now, that Mark will NOT be able to get Dean, or look beyond the surface in regards to his character.
He says he likes complicated/complex characters (which is why I held out hope for Spike), but obviously only in those cases where they fit with his pre-existing notions of what 'complex' is.
shipperx From: shipperx Date: July 24th, 2012 03:09 pm (UTC) (Link)
(I wonder what Mark will say to the soul...)

Won't matter.

It's a weird thing, but people cling to it so with Angel that when it's bestowed on Spike... Spike's doesn't matter, because... well...? Look! There's Angel.

People are weird.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: July 24th, 2012 03:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
yep, apparently it's 'nobler' to be punished with a soul, than it is to struggle to get one by your own choice.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: July 24th, 2012 03:26 pm (UTC) (Link)
Considering that Dean is hardly the most politically correct guy out there, to put it mildly, Mark and his fans are going to hate him as much as they did Xander in the first seasons of Buffy. I seriously doubt they'll bother looking beyond the surface, not like they did with either Xander or Spike.

hell, a lot of these people reacted badly, when Katniss, aka the girl who grew up in a dystopia, wasn't politically correct when talking about people with a mental disability. They do not understand the concept of judging a character by the circumstances they grow up in.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: July 24th, 2012 02:21 am (UTC) (Link)
But yeah, people seem to have this desire to see Buffy, or any female character, as the victim in any situation, regardless of their actual behavior on the show or in a book. This seems even more likely with male viewers. It's like they can't turn their minds around the idea, that maybe, just maybe, the woman is actually responsible for her own actions, and should be held accountable for them.

As a result, people like Mark and even Whedon, unintentionally insult the women they supposedly idolize.
elisi From: elisi Date: July 24th, 2012 02:57 pm (UTC) (Link)
*nods*

It's particularly ironic when it comes to Buffy, as it is Joss' only properly feminist show.
shipperx From: shipperx Date: July 24th, 2012 09:51 am (UTC) (Link)
Yep.


I find it rather creepy.
elisi From: elisi Date: July 24th, 2012 02:49 pm (UTC) (Link)
Also, way to miss the entire point of the show.
sueworld2003 From: sueworld2003 Date: July 24th, 2012 02:57 am (UTC) (Link)
Yeah I wasn't surprised in the slightest sadly. The mans chock of double standards.
snogged From: snogged Date: July 24th, 2012 07:52 am (UTC) (Link)
I'm bothered by the fact that he didn't mention Buffy's behavior either. She's no innocent in this.

As for your last bit about Willow, Willow is my favorite character of the show and always has been...but I'm still willing to admit that she did some super shitty stuff.
shipperx From: shipperx Date: July 24th, 2012 09:49 am (UTC) (Link)
On one hand he keeps mentioning Spike's inappropriate invading of Buffy's personal space and so on,which k, is understandable.

But what bothers me, is that in his entire review of Gone, even after talking about what Spike did wrong when he first showed up at Buffy's, he doesn't even mention, Buffy's...


So my first bet is won. (I bet he would have nothing to say about that. Next up... my bet on Dead Things).

And don't you know, it doesn't count when Buffy does it (wish LJ had an eyerolling icon).
menomegirl From: menomegirl Date: July 25th, 2012 12:45 am (UTC) (Link)
(wish LJ had an eyerolling icon)

Here, you can borrow my Willow icon. :D
ms_scarletibis From: ms_scarletibis Date: July 24th, 2012 05:04 pm (UTC) (Link)
Word all over your post.

It's disturbing, frankly.
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