Two of my fave boyss
Just reviewed a fic, and I probably shouldn't have. Should have just… - Me myself and I
It's all about me
Just reviewed a fic, and I probably shouldn't have. Should have just ignored it and moved on, but... I guess I hit a moment of 'no more'

I hate charbashing, that's nothing new, so it shouldn't surprise anyone. Hell I can't even stand it when people bash characters that I despise myself.

But for me the worst kind of charbashing is in rpf.

It's weird, I've written fics with Jared or JDM as the bad guy. And I wouldn't call those charbashing, since it's just them playing the part of the bad guy. So why does it affect me so badly when someone writes a J2 fic, AU or otherwise, and has Jared talk about how he can't stand Gen for being clingy?

Somehow it just feels ... different.

I was going to just read on and ignore it, because well I love werewolf fics.

But then at the end of the first chapter they had Jensen call Danneel a whore. Not because she actually did anything wrong, but because she was interested in him. Never mind that in the fic, Jensen is the guy who behaves whorish by seducing women who are in a relationship and getting them to cheat on their boyfriends. Never mind that he probably ruined her life in the fic, cause hey... none of that is of course his fault. No he gets to call her a whore and we're supposed to be amused by it...

It's one thing to have Dean Winchester call Ruby a whore, or a bitch because well, she's a demon, she's evil and he seems to have a limited repertoire of insults were women are concerned. But when any version of Jensen or Jared uses those words against their real life wives, it just feels like it's the author's bias screaming through. And it pulls me right out of a fic that I'd normally like.

Also... I'm going to laugh at any fic that has a Jared over sixteen, called a runt. I've seen this in several fics recently and it's like... have you seen Jared? Yes he's grown since spn started, but he was hardly a runt even when he was on 'Gilmore girls'.
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(Deleted comment)
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: June 7th, 2012 05:33 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Not really related, but curious

there will be, I just need to get a few other distractions like my spn_j2 big bang out of the way first.
spiceblueeyes From: spiceblueeyes Date: June 7th, 2012 06:27 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Not really related, but curious

Butting in to say I'm really looking forward to that sequel!
just_ruth From: just_ruth Date: June 7th, 2012 05:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
It is a fact that you will seldom find a more vicious group of misogynists than the so-called "tin hats." I don't think you could trust them to baby sit a female child because of the depths of their hatred.

Rumors are flying that the reason Jared and Jensen cancelled the Paris con is because there's been a serious threat against their wives and the baby.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: June 7th, 2012 05:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
I never got why anyone who claims to like Jared or Jensen would hate Gen or Danneel.

Even if the boys really were gay, which honestly I've seen no proof of, and even if they were interested in one another, something I've seen even less proof of, then it still wouldn't be a reason to hate the wives.

Because even in that unlikely case that the marriages are fake, there are still only two options:

Either the J's are assholes who are taking advantage of two innocent women, keeping them locked in a loveless marriage just to save their own reps and careers.

Or, Gen and Danneel are two utterly awesome women who are willing to pretend to be with them to help the boys career. Even though it keeps them from having a fullfilling relationship of their own.

Now do either of those possibilities sound like a reason to hate the wives? They sure as hell don't to me.

And the notion that anyone would be crazy enough to threaten the J's families out of some kind of delusion is just... too disgusting to imagine.
just_ruth From: just_ruth Date: June 7th, 2012 06:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
It's always been beyond me, and that's a fact.
honeylocusttree From: honeylocusttree Date: June 7th, 2012 05:55 pm (UTC) (Link)
You're not wrong. Women hating on other women who they don't know and will never meet merely for being involved in the lives of other people they don't know is just obnoxious, whiny, and lacking in either pride or courage.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: June 8th, 2012 03:28 pm (UTC) (Link)
uhuh, often with bashing like this I just get the feeling that the author is giving a 'take that' at the wives. As if making the J''s insult Danneel or Gen somehow 'punishes' them for daring to be loved by the guys in real life.

I just feel that in most fics it tends to make the J's look bad.
spiceblueeyes From: spiceblueeyes Date: June 7th, 2012 06:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
I agree with everything you've said here. It feels different to me too, and I don't like reading fics that do that so I generally stop reading if they do.
just_ruth From: just_ruth Date: June 7th, 2012 06:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
I love your icon!
spiceblueeyes From: spiceblueeyes Date: June 7th, 2012 06:57 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks :)
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: June 8th, 2012 03:29 pm (UTC) (Link)
for some reason most bashfics tend to make me dislike the characters I'm supposed to like, and feel sorry for the ones getting bashed and I'm pretty sure that's not the bashers' intention.
vampslayer04 From: vampslayer04 Date: June 7th, 2012 11:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
So much hate for the tinhats. I can *wink nudge* with the best of them about J2, but it's clear Jared and Jensen love their wives.

This whole mess has put me completely off most RPS, unless it's a total AU.

Hell, I actually like Ruby, and I think they gave her the short end of the stick with that storyline, and I'd love to see her back.

So that automatically splits me from most of fandom.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: June 8th, 2012 03:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh I loved Ruby, still do, and I'm pretty sure that if Ruby had been male, she'd be as popular as Crowley, Cas and Gabriel are.

For me it's not that I mind people slashing the boys, and it's actually only a small minority of J2 writers who bash the wives. These days most just tend to depict them as close friends of the boys. But in most cases where there is bashing, it just tends to make me sideeye the versions of Jared and Jensen in the fic, rather than Gen or Danneel.
frelling_tralk From: frelling_tralk Date: June 8th, 2012 02:33 am (UTC) (Link)
I totally agree with you, I didnt even like when Dean called Ruby names quite honestly. I mean bitch is one thing because, without meaning to sound dismissive of it, it is kind of a general insult that most people will have used at some time in their life, but I always hated when the writers had Dean using words like whore and skank against Ruby because it did make it seem like he had a problem with women. And yet in seasons 1 and 2 he was happily having casual sex and never seemed to have any problem with women who would do the same thing, so why he would jump to those kind of insults never sat right with me
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: June 8th, 2012 03:36 pm (UTC) (Link)
I know what you mean, I think that with Dean the problem is that well, he didn't grow up around women. I'm sure that if he'd known Ellen and Jo better than he did in canon, they might have taught him better. But as it is, he's a product of his environment. And it's not even that he sees women sleeping around as a bad thing. It's just that he doesn't connect the words slut, skank or whore, when he uses them as an insult, with anything bad to do with the actual sleeping around. It's just the words he's been taught to see as the worst to use against female foes.

Like I said, he has a very small vocabulary to deal with female bad guys. And he just doesn't have the sensitivity to bother thinking about what he's saying. Just like even though he loves Sam more than anything, he still won't think about the way he described Sam's mental problems in s6-s7 as anything problematic.
jespretender From: jespretender Date: June 8th, 2012 09:13 am (UTC) (Link)
I think you'll find these women are laughing all the way to the bank with their millions so I shouldn't worry about them too much. Personally I get more upset if a child or an animal is hurt in a story.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: June 8th, 2012 03:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
I have more of an issue with what it says about the writers when they insult women for no reason. The underlying mysogony is just harmful to any women writing like that.
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