Two of my fave boyss
Rant: The great abandonment - Me myself and I
It's all about me
Rant: The great abandonment
Just annoyed with something I keep seeing, both in requests and in fics and metas and *grumble* other places.

The idea that Sam is somehow a bad guy for going to college.

Saw a request at spnstoryfinders earlier, that asked for something to have Sam made to feel guilty for 'abandoning Dean and his family by going to Stanford.

And I just... Sam did NOTHING wrong in going to college. Yes it hurt Dean, and Dean has the right to be hurt, but that doesn't mean that Sam should feel guilty over what he did, or be made to feel like he's some bad guy for going to school.

He didn't abandon anyone. He went to school, simple as that. It was his father who abandoned him by kicking him out. Now of course, John was just using the time old honored tradition of threatening the kid into staying so he could protect him. And he did keep track of him afterwards. But that doesn't take away his threat or the way it must have hurt Sam.

It would be one thing if Dean had been the younger brother and in need of Sam as a caregiver. But seriously, Dean was an adult, and older than Sam. If he really missed Sam, he should have gone to visit him at Stanford. (visit as in, actually go talk to him, rather than watch him from afar, which I'm sure he did do)

I just really wish that people would stop acting as if Sam did some horribly evil thing by doing the most normal thing in the world, aka growing up and trying to find his own way in life.
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liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: October 18th, 2011 04:06 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Probably Mine

Thanks for the clarification, and in all honesty, it wasn't just your request, just seeing several fics talking about Sam like that and treating him like the bad guy over to short a period and it gets me in rant mode*g*

And to be honest, I'm usually on Dean's side, it's just that this is one thing where though I feel Dean has every right to be hurt, feelings after all are irrational, that doesn't mean that Sam did anything bad with leaving in the first place.
corbyinoz From: corbyinoz Date: October 18th, 2011 05:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
I do tend to regard Sam as in the wrong for leaving for Stanford, and I think in time he'd regret it. Ordinarily - if the Winchesters ran a trucking business, say, or a hardware store, then yes, I'd agree with you entirely, even if John and Dean *did* regard Sam as 'abandoning' them. That's about ego, and pride, as much as about family, and certainly Sam always had the right to go. But Sam left his brother and father behind knowing they would be fighting a lonely, dangerous war. He had to know he was running away from risk, leaving them to carry the burden. 7.03 showed that Sam was relied upon for research - what if his absence contributed to their deaths? Would he ever forgive himself for not being there, helping out, watching their backs?

I guess we always filter these things through our own set of values, and for me, I could no more leave a sibling I loved behind to face dangers while I took it easy than I could fly to the moon. I couldn't sit in lectures, or eye off a new partner, or go to a frat party while my family was desperately fighting against evil, trying to save people. (Mind you, I don't think younger Sam even got that last part of it all - witness Wendigo and Scarecrow). So yes, for me Sam was in the wrong. It was tragic that anyone was ever exposed to that knowledge and that life, but once they were, the choice to leave it when he was trained and equipped to do something about it was, for me, morally wrong. But I completely understand that others see it differently, as your post illustrates, and fair enough!
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: October 18th, 2011 05:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
I guess I see it different*g*

It's a bit like child soldiers. Sam and Dean didn't choose to be trained for their father's war. That was John's choice. Dean accepted it, because he wanted his father to be proud of him, because it was something to hang on to. But i don't feel that either of them had any obligation to pick up a trade they didn't choose to be trained for.

They never had a choice, because John didn't give them that choice. He forced it on them. To protect them, yes, but that still doesn't excuse it.

As such, as a human being with free will, Sam had every right to refuse the choice John made for him.
corbyinoz From: corbyinoz Date: October 19th, 2011 12:53 am (UTC) (Link)
Yes, I agree, Sam had the right to choose, (and your child soldier analogy is spot on). But along with Sam's right to choose is the fact that such a choice has consequences. And I just can't get past the fact that the consequences in this case include less people saved, and more risk for his father and brother. I couldn't make that choice. We'll have t agree to disagree - just offering a different viewpoint, with all respect for yours.
ladypeyton From: ladypeyton Date: October 18th, 2011 06:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
Except John left 2 young boys home alone all. the. time. The douchecanoe in that situation was John. Not Sam, and not Dean.
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corbyinoz From: corbyinoz Date: October 19th, 2011 12:55 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Good Points

Nicely put. Anyone can choose to ignore something dreadful they could help address, but that does say something about their character.
just_ruth From: just_ruth Date: October 18th, 2011 08:14 pm (UTC) (Link)
Word. I almost think it's just an excuse so people can write Dean as something less than the loving brother he is.

As for not speaking to Sam for two years - I read one fanfic where Dean called Sam all the time, except when he got hurt. Sam had to search for him and when they finally met up both jumped up on their pride and had an arguement that led to them not speaking for two years. I read it and thought oh, that made so much sense.

varkelton From: varkelton Date: October 18th, 2011 10:14 pm (UTC) (Link)
Totally, completely agree with you, and always have. Marriages with cops and soldiers break up all the time because the partner can't deal with their loved one continually putting themselves at risk. For Sam, Dean and John were everything to him, and there was nothing he could do to keep them from throwing themselves in the path of danger. He was a teenager who had really never known stability or safety. That level of fear and helplessness, I can't even imagine. Of course Sam craved normalcy. And sometimes, when you can't stop a loved one from being self-destructive, the best thing to do is jump ship before you go down with them. And the communication thing is a two way street. Why do people always assume that that lack was completely Sam's fault? Was Dean incapable of stepping onto the Stanford campus? I'm sorry, but that stumble is on both boys' heads.
coronasunrise From: coronasunrise Date: November 4th, 2011 05:13 pm (UTC) (Link)
I just don't buy that John and Dean were everything to Sam. If they were then empty road when he left home would not have been one of his top memories. If you look at Sam's heaven John and Dean were nowhere to be seen.

Personally, I believe that the rift was on Sam part because of the pilot. We saw that Dean thought Sam wanted to have nothing to do with him. Sam didn’t deny it.
coronasunrise From: coronasunrise Date: November 4th, 2011 05:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
I speak as a Dean fan who hates Sam with a passion of a million burning suns. I’ve never seen Sam leaving to go to Stanford as wrong or selfish. That being said John didn’t kick Sam out. Sam was given a choice and he chose to leave. We never saw the fight but we do know that harsh words were said on both sides. Also, we know Sam leaving was one of Sam’s top memories. I do have a small problem with that. I wish Sam felt a bit torn that he had to leave him family, even if it was the right choice for him.

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