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Ever had one of those moments where you're looking at a crossover of… - Me myself and I
It's all about me
liliaeth
liliaeth
Ever had one of those moments where you're looking at a crossover of two series you might be interested in, and then look at the characters and go"Why don't people write these crossovers with actually interesting characters, instead of the boring ones?"

I keep having that. I guess I got too spoiled with all the Methos crossovers in my HL days, these days the chars I like most in fandoms, rarely seem to catch the interest of crossover writers. SPN being a rare exception.

When I read Avengers crossovers, I don't want to read about Coulson, or Clint Barton, I want to see Steve Rogers, Thor, Black Widow... In BtvS crossovers, I want to see Spike, not Xander, in Teen Wolf crossovers, I'm looking for Scott, Stiles could drop dead for all I care. And I really totally really don't want to read Smallville crossovers with Chloe as the main character...

Guess I'm doomed, right?
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Comments
lady_yashka From: lady_yashka Date: January 29th, 2013 02:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
I have that moment all the time. For example, I would love to see a crossover between White Collar and Suits that wasn't all about getting the characters to hook up. I would love to see Harvey Specter cast as Neal Caffery's lawyer. Or have Peter and Neal on the opposite side of a case that Harvey's working on.

I write a lot of crossovers, but sometimes I just want to read someone else's take on the whole thing.

And now I'll stop ranting in the commments on your journal. :)
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: January 29th, 2013 02:35 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh I know the feeling all too well. Like when you can think of so many ways for those characters to interact, and all people seem to be willing to give is random sex that could involve pretty much any character in any fandom...

Not saying that cross fandom hooks up can't be fun, but half the time, if all they're about is sex, then I at times barely even recognize which characters they're supposed to be.
lady_yashka From: lady_yashka Date: January 29th, 2013 02:55 pm (UTC) (Link)
That's it exactly. I don't mind the occasional fandom hook ups either, but sometimes I want a story with a bit more substance.

Can I ask what brought the rant on, or was it just frustration at not being able to find decent crossovers?
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: January 29th, 2013 03:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
mostly the disappointing results I get when going through Avengers/SPN crossovers. Well that and reading a fic that was at least claiming to be an Avengers/SPN crossover, but that turned out to be more of a Avengers/Hansel and Gretel crossover with Dean cameo appearances serving primarily to give Clint Barton some superpowers and make him a Campbell.

It's silly... but most of the Avengers crossovers I've seen dissapoint me, because they're either about Coulson, Clint or Loki, while neither of those are in my top three of fave Avengers characters.
(that and I esp. don't like Loki and Gabriel fics, of which there are far too many*eg*)

It's a silly rant, which is why I didn't even bother to post it on fanficrants, but if you can't have irrational rants on your own lj, then where can you? Right?
lady_yashka From: lady_yashka Date: January 29th, 2013 03:18 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ahh...I saw the Avengers/SPN one that had Hansel and Gretel. I was so disappointed. It was such an awesome premise too.

And I don't think it's silly. While I do like those characters, I want more of a variety as well. I quit reading Smallville crossovers because they kept turning Chloe into a Super Sue. I just want to read crossover where everyone is in character.

And you can totally rant on your own lj. That's what it's for. :)
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: January 29th, 2013 08:11 pm (UTC) (Link)
I think the biggest issue I had with that fic is that you could have written Dean and the other spn chars out of that story entirely, and it wouldn't have affected the plot in even the slightest way.

I mean, it's ok to primarily focus on the chars from one fandom, but there has to be at least some kind of reason for the others to be there as well or what's the point of making it a crossover in the first place.

I just got the idea that the author had an awesome idea for a Hansel and Gretel/Avengers crossover and then shoehorned Dean into it, because well... they had to finish their fic before the deadline.
lady_yashka From: lady_yashka Date: January 30th, 2013 01:34 am (UTC) (Link)
That is very true. The character bashing didn't help it any either.

And that is really sad because the idea of SHIELD recruiting Dean while Sam is at college is an awesome idea. Sadly that is not what we got. Like I said before, I write a lot of crossovers, and I wouldn't bother writing a story if there wasn't a reason to have both sets of characters there. That takes away all the fun of writing a crossover.

I recently read an Avengers/White Collar crossover that was awesome. All the characters had a reason for being there, as far as I was concerned, no one was out of character, and everyone got to be awesome. I wish more writers did that.
moon_blitz From: moon_blitz Date: January 29th, 2013 03:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
My problem is more that there are no crossovers between series that I like - for example, I'd love to see a crossover between Continuum and Doctor Who, although I haven't the faintest idea how that would play out. Or Doctor Who and Grimm. This is also why I'm so excited to see your Grimm/Criminal Minds fic, since I can't find any others.

I guess the thing with crossovers between popular fandoms is that the most popular characters get featured, and so you end up with a whole bunch of crossover fic featuring the same characters, and very little fic involving everyone else.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: January 29th, 2013 07:56 pm (UTC) (Link)
oh I'd love those as well.

Someone wrote me a Grimm/Terminator: the Sarah Connor Chronicles crossover for the crossover ficathon, which was pretty cool and unexpected
oneiriad From: oneiriad Date: January 29th, 2013 07:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
I know those moments. I know them intimately.

That said, while the wrong said of characters or crossovers that's really just an excuse for two random guys to have a pwp, the kind of crossover that annoys me the most, is the "let's-tell-every-secret-we've-ever-had-to-these-random-strangers-we've-only-just-met" crossovers. They seem far too common and seriously? Methos stayed off everybody's radar for millennia, he's not going to tell he's real name to the latest character-from-other-series-turned-Immortal just because. For instance.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: January 29th, 2013 07:55 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh God yes, I was reading a HL/Avengers crossover earlier and in it, Joe Dawnson, told Clint, an utter stranger whom he'd just met a few hours ago, that he was a watcher and what the watchers did and whom they watched....

Just because Clint said he dealt with weirdness... Joe didn't even have any proof that Clint wasn't an immortal...

What also annoys me are crossovers between spn and pretty much any cop or law enforcement related show, where the LEO's not only believe the Winchesters as soon as they tell them about monsters; (and I'm not even talking about a situation where the cops have actually seen anything weird) but then on top of that let them go because... identify fraud, credit card fraud, theft, breaking and entering, grave desecration, aren't so serious, if they say they're innocent of the murders they're accused of.
oneiriad From: oneiriad Date: January 29th, 2013 08:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
I saw that story. And yeah - in SPN, it took Agent Henricksen experiencing demonic possession first-hand to finally accept that the boys might not be deluded serial-killers with a history of being abused. Telling the cops that monsters are real isn't likely to make them your friends unless you have some pretty convincing proof.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: January 29th, 2013 08:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
I think it's because I grew up reading comics, but well... when I read a crossover, I love the idea of setting the two series up against one another, at least initially. I mean, where's the fun of doing a spn crossover with a cop show, if you can't play with the tension of the cops thinking the Winchesters are mass-murderers. The lack of belief in what the Winchesters see as reality, is half the story, so dropping that just so they can play best friend is like sawing the feet out from under your plot.
rayvlin From: rayvlin Date: January 29th, 2013 07:56 pm (UTC) (Link)
I think people like to get a bit too much out of character with their cross-overs with the recognizable ones.

I don't know if any of you watch Archer, but the main lead is the same guy as the dad in Bob's Burgers. Well they did a "cross-over" cameo on Archer. That was a bit of a disappointment, only the mom was voiced. If anyone it should have been bunny girl.

When I think of Avengers/SPN cross-over I think of what kind of conversations would Dean and Blackwidow have. Would Bruce and Sam relate? How pissed off would Bobby be over Tony's arrogance but would he have a bit of hero worship for Cap? Villains play a big part in a story so you need to be picky on who you pick, or if you are making up one what elements do you create to make it essential that these two teams decide to work together.

Needless to say, a good story requires a lot of work. With something like Avengers there's a lot of history to consider if you are going to look into the comics.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: January 29th, 2013 08:04 pm (UTC) (Link)
hell, my first thought in an Avengers/SPN crossover would be that the Winchesters would think that Thor is a pagan god of the kind they're used to. Aka, the human eating kind. They'd think that Cap is either some kind of monster or a witch, made some kind of deal or is some other kind of supernatural creature.

I'd think about Cap's reaction to Castiel and other angels and how it would affect his faith.

I'd think about the Avengers getting sent after the Winchesters. (or at least Clint and/or Natasha) because they keep coming back from the dead, or someone noticed their connection to Castiel. Whose time as God, would have most definitely been followed by Fury, even if he'd probably wouldn't have a clue about what Cas really is.

I'd think about Tony and Dean getting along awesomely, and Sam trying to find out anything he can about Asgard. Or hell about the Winchesters asking Charlie to hack SHIELD for them to get information on Thor or...

You know, dozens of potential storylines. And yet, aside of a rare exception here and there, I don't see any of them reflected in the majority of spn/Avengers crossovers on ff.net or Ao3
rayvlin From: rayvlin Date: January 29th, 2013 11:51 pm (UTC) (Link)
Maybe someone should hold a mufti-fandom kink meme crossover prompt/fill.
astridv From: astridv Date: January 29th, 2013 09:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
As someone who totally loves Clint Barton, I can't stand him crossing over into my other fandoms (usually with Coulson in toe). I'm in those fandoms because I'm interested in those characters, not some generic guys with JRenner's face.

I had to bookmark a filtered version of the Mission Impossible page on AO3 because otherwise it's all Clint/Coulson and I... do not want, seriously.

eta: it's weird, I can't of any Avengers crossover I really liked, off the top of my head. In many other fandoms I love crossovers but something about TA doesn't lend itself to them, maybe? Or I read the wrong ones.

Edited at 2013-01-29 09:57 pm (UTC)
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: January 29th, 2013 10:04 pm (UTC) (Link)
I know what you mean, the majority of Clint centric Avengers crossovers seem to treat any character ever played by Renner as Clint under some other alias. Which can get annoying as hell really fast.

There are some good Avengers crossovers though. Best I've read so far was an SPN/Avengers cross that had Loki pull a trick on Sam to make Sam look like Loki and Loki look like Sam. So when the Avengers captured Sam, they thought they had Loki.

What made the fic so good was that the author primarily focused on the conversation between Thor, who still thought that Sam was Loki, and Sam who kept trying to convince him of the truth.

Thought I bookmarked it, but apparently not, will let you know when I find it again, I first read it on ff.net.

One of the things I like most of it is that even though Loki is in it, it's not about Loki. It's far more about Thor. Well about Thor and about Fury and how he deals with someone he thinks is Loki. And of course, as soon as he finds out who Sam is, Sam gets guarded just as badly as he was before.
astridv From: astridv Date: January 29th, 2013 10:33 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh, that really sounds fun, I'd love to read that if you can find the link.

I remembered one, too! A Project Runway crossover that actually got me into the show, heh. It's by XParrot. Loki Runway: http://archiveofourown.org/works/577749. It's a really fun read all around.
liliaeth From: liliaeth Date: January 31st, 2013 09:39 am (UTC) (Link)
Read that one, it's awesome.

fic I meant is The Tomato in the Mirror
astridv From: astridv Date: February 1st, 2013 09:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
Great, thanks. I'm already looking forward to reading it, I'm in the mood for longer fic.
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